Do you think manual transmissions will ever become obsolete?
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ditto on the too much fun part. as far a reliability goes, you cant beat an old fashon manual transmission. cheap to maintain and can take a beating (most of em). The only thing that im worried about is that in 50 years there will be nobody around to remember how to drive them "properly", so their reputation of being hard to drive will just grow. damn automatics, its like a plauge.
Well I think that the manual tranny will become obsolete eventually because, contrary to common belief, an SMG does last longer than a traditional manual gearbox. BMW have done extensive testing on the standard and SMG M3 and the SMG's clutch lasts a lot longer than the manual one.
Apart from that, the motor companies seem to favour SMG's (or whatever they call their 'boxes) for their speed and their perfection. It'll be a sad day when all the manuals are gone![[bigcry]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_bigcry.gif "Big Cry [bigcry]")
Apart from that, the motor companies seem to favour SMG's (or whatever they call their 'boxes) for their speed and their perfection. It'll be a sad day when all the manuals are gone
Chesty Bonds said:
Well I think that the manual tranny will become obsolete eventually because, contrary to common belief, an SMG does last longer than a traditional manual gearbox. BMW have done extensive testing on the standard and SMG M3 and the SMG's clutch lasts a lot longer than the manual one.
Apart from that, the motor companies seem to favour SMG's (or whatever they call their 'boxes) for their speed and their perfection. It'll be a sad day when all the manuals are gone
Apart from that, the motor companies seem to favour SMG's (or whatever they call their 'boxes) for their speed and their perfection. It'll be a sad day when all the manuals are gone
there is no way they would stop making them. Thats like saying they will stop making motorcycles or some other "fun" product. Driving is a hobby for a lot of people and the manual is part of the hobby. Its like buying a boat. You don't need a boat, but it sure is fun to ride around in one. There will always be a market and someone will always produce them. automatics have been out forever and they are still improving the manual. real car enthusiasts will have nothing but a manual. i won't drive an automatic until i'm too old to care about some shetty car shifting gears for me always at the wrong time. Every time i have to drive my wife's auto, i want to run it into a friggin tree. I can't stand having to push in the gas petal just right to make it shift down one gear. Usually it throws down two gears and i'm like WTF?!!?!? But its not a 50000 dollar luxury car either so i can't say there aren't better slushboxes out there.
I doubt they will ever go away completely, but expect that the cost of manual transmission options may RISE to cover the costs over lower volume. I have read that less than 10% of the cars sold today are manual, down from 20% - 30% in the 70s and 80s. In the past many cars that logically should have had a manual option did not. In the 80s, Firebirds and Camaros with a 305 V8 could be ordered with a manual, but the 350 V8 was automatic only?!!?!?!!??!? Go figure.
I do think SMG technology may someday obsolete a fully manual shift option. Also automatics as we know them today are on the way out. They will eventual be replaced by CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) technology.
I do think SMG technology may someday obsolete a fully manual shift option. Also automatics as we know them today are on the way out. They will eventual be replaced by CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) technology.
took the words out of my mouth. manuals won't die, but there will be die hards that will always want them. walk into any dealership and option out a car that you like, then ask for a manual. most likely, they'll have to locate, or it'll be made to order. already, manual lovers are having to "settle" and lose leverage while dealing, just because of the scarcity. even cars like zhp, which should be manual only, has been given into cries of "i need a steptro!!"
SMG really is the future, eps if you want the best performance. humans are quite inefficient, but we like to do things on our own too, thus i think manuals will stick around, but our grand kids just may call us stubborn old foggies for loving our manuals.
SMG really is the future, eps if you want the best performance. humans are quite inefficient, but we like to do things on our own too, thus i think manuals will stick around, but our grand kids just may call us stubborn old foggies for loving our manuals.
That is exactly right about the 350 IROCS only being autos. If I remember correctly, it had something to do with keeping emissions within the legal limit (similar to the reason the current Corvettes and the last generation of Camaros and Firebirds have/had the CAGS "skip shift") and the fact that GM didn't have a readily available manual that they felt was strong enough to put behind the 350 and would also fit in the tranny tunnel of the F-bodies.
Actually, car companies are trying to bring them back, but there's hardly any success. Most people just prefer automatic transmissions. I think that SMG gearboxes will replace manual transmission and CVT transmission will replace automatic transmission.
Part of the reason of the manual's lack of success is that a lot of guys now, when you ask if their car is manual or automatic, they like to respond with "Both". I'm guessing having the touch-shift feature available on many new automatic tranny cars today makes it "okay" for guys to get an automatic, and at the very least they can say "Oh my car has both" when this is just not the truth at all, but whatever makes them sleep better at night....
Part of the reason of the manual's lack of success is that a lot of guys now, when you ask if their car is manual or automatic, they like to respond with "Both". I'm guessing having the touch-shift feature available on many new automatic tranny cars today makes it "okay" for guys to get an automatic, and at the very least they can say "Oh my car has both" when this is just not the truth at all, but whatever makes them sleep better at night....
Why does everyone hate SMG?? have you guys driven it, its great! w00t! ![[thumb]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_thumb.gif "Thumbs Up [thumb]")
I think of SMG (or w/e other companies call their version of it) like computers, I mean everyone thats old either gripes or hates them or doesn't know how to use them (cough Jeremy Clarkson cough lol) I love manual transmission and my favorite is a 6-speed short shifter, with double clutch, I mean whats not to like about having those 2 options together, I love the M3 as well but if I were to buy one I'd want it with SMG and if I ever bought something like a 330i or 525i I'd want it with a stick, I dunno I've always had this favorite thinking. I want to buy a 330i ZHP and I definately want that 6-speed, its just feels so good that you have something that not everyone can drive so you have an excuse to say "you don't know how to drive it" or "I hate how you shift man, you'll kill my car" [fake] I voted Yes but like many of you I'd wish that it never get erased from car manufacturing and always remain and option ![[:D]](/images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin [:D]")
I think of SMG (or w/e other companies call their version of it) like computers, I mean everyone thats old either gripes or hates them or doesn't know how to use them (cough Jeremy Clarkson cough lol) I love manual transmission and my favorite is a 6-speed short shifter, with double clutch, I mean whats not to like about having those 2 options together, I love the M3 as well but if I were to buy one I'd want it with SMG and if I ever bought something like a 330i or 525i I'd want it with a stick, I dunno I've always had this favorite thinking. I want to buy a 330i ZHP and I definately want that 6-speed, its just feels so good that you have something that not everyone can drive so you have an excuse to say "you don't know how to drive it" or "I hate how you shift man, you'll kill my car" [fake] I voted Yes but like many of you I'd wish that it never get erased from car manufacturing and always remain and option
I'm making plans to start a restoration next year on my '84 Firebird. It has the crappy 2.8 V6 in it. I'm reading up and studying what it will take to put a 350 V8 in it. The common conversion on the web seems to be an LT1 drive train from an early '90s Camaro, Bird or Vette, with a T5 or T56 tranny. It bolts in relatively easy. But I'm also considering an "old school" conversion - stroker kit, Edelbrock manifold and Holley double pumper, 300 - 350 hp would be nice.
Are we just talking the U.S. here??
Because I'm surprised nobody's brought up the differences between the U.S and Europe on this matter. Manuals are already dead among American manufacturers as far as I'm concerned (oh, sure there are a few models you can still get--GTO, Corvette, Viper). And I've also come across the number that 10% or less of cars sold in the U.S are manuels. But in Europe, where BMWs and Porshces are made, the trend is the exact opposite--10% or less of the cars have automatics. Sure, the option exists nowadays, but few Europeans buy their cars with autos. You'd be surprised by how many E-class (yes Mercedes does make manuals!) and even A6/A8 manuals there are in Europe. And given that fuel costs and efficiency are HUGE concerns in Europe and Asia, and I'm willing to be that buyers will be buying manuals on those continents for decades to come; also, it's kind of a cultural thing for them, too--just one more thing for them to differentiate themselves from "lazy" Americans.
Given this--just because manuals make up only a small portion of U.S. autos, but a major portion of Europe (also Asian cars)--I don't think the manual is dead or on the verge. Many have written that SMG/F1-style trannys will replace manuals. Sure, maybe in Ferraris (even that's a stretch) or BMWs, but I doubt Peugot or Citroen or Opel will be offering them any time soon.
Look at the bigger (brighter) picture guys....
Because I'm surprised nobody's brought up the differences between the U.S and Europe on this matter. Manuals are already dead among American manufacturers as far as I'm concerned (oh, sure there are a few models you can still get--GTO, Corvette, Viper). And I've also come across the number that 10% or less of cars sold in the U.S are manuels. But in Europe, where BMWs and Porshces are made, the trend is the exact opposite--10% or less of the cars have automatics. Sure, the option exists nowadays, but few Europeans buy their cars with autos. You'd be surprised by how many E-class (yes Mercedes does make manuals!) and even A6/A8 manuals there are in Europe. And given that fuel costs and efficiency are HUGE concerns in Europe and Asia, and I'm willing to be that buyers will be buying manuals on those continents for decades to come; also, it's kind of a cultural thing for them, too--just one more thing for them to differentiate themselves from "lazy" Americans.
Given this--just because manuals make up only a small portion of U.S. autos, but a major portion of Europe (also Asian cars)--I don't think the manual is dead or on the verge. Many have written that SMG/F1-style trannys will replace manuals. Sure, maybe in Ferraris (even that's a stretch) or BMWs, but I doubt Peugot or Citroen or Opel will be offering them any time soon.
Look at the bigger (brighter) picture guys....
That is not true, though. Nowadays, there are automatic transmissions out there that boast better gas mileage than the same car with a manual transmission. You also have to take in the fact that people are not perfect and cannot drive "perfectly economical" with their manual transmissions, so stick shift owners do not necessarily end up with better gas mileage. Another thing to note is that Europe is not the way they used to be with manual....5-10 years ago, I'd agree with you, but now the Europeans are growing to like the automatic transmission, too. Lots of traffic now and automatic makes things easier. The BMW 7-series and Mercedes S-Class ONLY come with automatic transmission. The upper-model X5's (excluding the 3.0i) come standard with the auto, and the E-Class comes standard with automatic transmission as well (there is no available manual tranny available in Europe for the new E and CLK classes, I checked this out). There may be Audi A6's available in manual but only because they are probably the horribly-underpowered versions and need the manual to ring out all the power.
Perhaps the most realistic statement to make would be that manual will probably not die for a long time, but the introduction of new transmissions (CVT and SMG) only makes manual look more and more obsolete.![[:(]](/images/smilies/frown.png "Frown [:(]")
Perhaps the most realistic statement to make would be that manual will probably not die for a long time, but the introduction of new transmissions (CVT and SMG) only makes manual look more and more obsolete.
It'll be obsolete eventually, especially if electric catches on. But just because it's obsolete doesn't mean it will go away completely, or people won't love it just as much. Things that are more convenient and efficient will come along and replace them. Then the same thing will happen to those things.