Do you think manual transmissions will ever become obsolete?

[MrElussive]

Are you f*cking serious?!?! Who the f*ck are you all of the sudden, Mr. Spurious? How can you make statements like that you dumbf&ck! You better back the f*ck up bitch, because you don't know jack shit about me, about how I drive or how long I've driving!! Keep your generalizations to yourself duchebag. I downshift all the time, and I have absolutely know clue what you are basing your claims on you little slanderous slut. Maybe I said, and I have no idea if or when, that while I'll be slowing down, not knowing if the light's gonna change and I'll pop to neutral to see if I can keep in another gear or keep downshifting, to match revs with speed. But you are taking that WAY out of context and to say I'm preaching without downshifting is plain ignorance!!!! F&CK YOU COCKSUCKER!!! I don't downshift?? What a f*cking joke. That'd be laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.

Based on your reaction, it sounds like I'm exactly right.

 

[///M SPEED]

It's all good people, I am done with this thread. My main intention wasn't to cause heat or friction, but I get tired of people shrugging SMG off as some Auto gearbox or some kind of a gimmick. Peace to all and Merry Christmas. I don't care what anyone thinks about SMG anymore. To each his own......

P.S. Whether you people believe it or not I actually prefer a 3-pedal system, but I do not regret purchasing the SMG II option. Well, there are times I do.

 

[flashinthepan]

Based on your reaction, it sounds like I'm exactly right.

lol !! Peace !

3 pedals or SMG..enjoy your rides, throw the B.S. out.

Like M-Speed says Merry Christmas, regardless as to how you shift.

 

[mjbst111]

lol !! Peace !

3 pedals or SMG..enjoy your rides, throw the B.S. out.

Like M-Speed says Merry Christmas, regardless as to how you shift.

as long as it isn't a true automatic! haha.

in response to downshifting to stop at a light or stop sign... why would you want to downshift? Brakes are easier/cheaper to change than a clutch or syncronisors, no? I understand you can do perfect shifting and all that but brakes are so easy to change..... haha

 

[Kirby]

Based on your reaction, it sounds like I'm exactly right.

Wallie argues so passionately (OK, goes off the deep end, that is) that I can't take him seriously either.

Claiming that someone who drives manual shift is a more skilled driver is 95% bull$hit. ANYBODY can learn to drive manual shift - prior to the 60's everybody did!!! Including your grandmother!!!! I get such a laugh out of people today who think they are "drivers" just because they can drive stick, and then act superior to those who choose SMG or God forbid, Steptronic. Meanwhile, they have no actual experience with SMG. "I test drove it for 15 minutes with my Dad" makes you an expert on SMG?!!???!?!? Bahahahaha!

SMG is superior to manual shift for it's designed purpose - winning races. Last time I checked, winning a race was all about who is first across the line, NOT about who has the best heel and toe technique or never misses a shift. Everything else equal, SMG will get you across the line ahead of a manual shift car. It's a fact - deal with it.

Races are won with the clutch pedal out and the left foot on the dead pedal. Some race drivers use a technique called flat shifting where they DON'T even USE the clutch pedal to shift. The only thing that matters is what gear you are in, not whether you got there with a clutch pedal.

My next vehicle will likely be SMGII - if it's a Bimmer, either an M Roadster or an M3, because I race and want the advantage. I could give a rat's ass what people think of my driving skills based on their mistaken presumptions about SMG, or Steptronic for that matter.

Challenge:
I normally autocross the 325i with stick, but to prove the point, I challenge any of the "Drive Stick or Die" guys to come to Reading and run autocross with me. I'll run my 330 with Steptronic, and you run stick. Let's see who has the best times and who is the best driver.

 

[Kirby]

as long as it isn't a true automatic! haha.

in response to downshifting to stop at a light or stop sign... why would you want to downshift? Brakes are easier/cheaper to change than a clutch or syncronisors, no? I understand you can do perfect shifting and all that but brakes are so easy to change..... haha

A clean, properly executed downshift wears neither the clutch or the sychros, and saves brake wear and tear.

 

[Average Jae]

Kirby, that reminds me of the 2hr autox BMW roadies put on 2 years ago. when i first got to the track, i was disappointed by the steptro cars sitting there. little did i know, how dumb and immature my reaction was. 2 mins into the drive, i realized why that was the case. by the end of the 2hr session, if not the for automatic tranny, i wouldn't have learned half the stuff they taught! it was hard enough to look ahead to the next turning point, remember when to brake, when to accel out of hte corner. heel toe in that situation? i would've burnt the clutch so fast they woudl've thrown my ass out of hte silverdome parkig lot! i was just overwhelmed w/ everything that had to be done. and it was a small 6-7 turn circuit. granted, it was my first time autoxing, but still, it's a lot of work, and requires ton of concentration. but the most important thing is IT WAS SOOOOOOOO FUN!! and i was amazed at how well the steptro held up, even in the regular mode. and i was amazed at how well the car held up. make a nice car, then put on a real life commercial.. that's where i picked up the 3i broschere, where i found the ZHP option, and here i am today..

 

[mjbst111]

A clean, properly executed downshift wears neither the clutch or the sychros, and saves brake wear and tear.

yes i know, thats why i said i understand there are perfect shifts.

But who honestly hits the perfect shift every single downshift for a stop...... I never see anyone double clutch when slowing for a stop. That is the only way to keep syncros from wearing. (again not saying no-one double clutches in these situations)

I'm just saying if you won't do it right: It is easier to change brakes.

 

[Chesty Bonds]

But who honestly hits the perfect shift every single downshift for a stop......

Er, ME!

 

[MrElussive]

Er, ME!

You're god damn right I do. I don't downshift all the time because it makes me "hard-core", I do it because it's fun!! Whenever I come to a stop, I always downshift until 2nd (like if I'm in 4th, I'll go 4-3, 3-2) and then I clutch in and brake at around 1,200rpm in 2nd or something like that. Sometimes I downshift into 1st if the situation is proper for it. Stop signs, traffic lights, some asshole who just cut me off, whatever. Downshifting is very enjoyable for me when slowing down or to achieve faster acceleration, and it gives the car a really nice feel.

 

[flashinthepan]

SMG is not fully there yet-

One other quick point on Paddel shifting, they will only improve with time, even though I felt it wasnt for me I would not rule out a future improved SMG, I keep hearing of other automakers producing the double clutch paddel shift - have not tested one out yet though, supposedly much smoother feel - but slightly slower engagement-milliseconds. You can bet the engineers are watching one another on this.

 

[Kirby]

Kirby, that reminds me of the 2hr autox BMW roadies put on 2 years ago. when i first got to the track, i was disappointed by the steptro cars sitting there. little did i know, how dumb and immature my reaction was. 2 mins into the drive, i realized why that was the case. by the end of the 2hr session, if not the for automatic tranny, i wouldn't have learned half the stuff they taught! it was hard enough to look ahead to the next turning point, remember when to brake, when to accel out of hte corner. heel toe in that situation? i would've burnt the clutch so fast they woudl've thrown my ass out of hte silverdome parkig lot! i was just overwhelmed w/ everything that had to be done. and it was a small 6-7 turn circuit. granted, it was my first time autoxing, but still, it's a lot of work, and requires ton of concentration. but the most important thing is IT WAS SOOOOOOOO FUN!! and i was amazed at how well the steptro held up, even in the regular mode. and i was amazed at how well the car held up. make a nice car, then put on a real life commercial.. that's where i picked up the 3i broschere, where i found the ZHP option, and here i am today..

Great post! I had a similar experience my first time racing my bimmer. I thought I was prepared based on earlier experience in motorcycle and go-kart racing. Ha! The more I race, the more I learn, and I also learn how much I have YET to learn and master. As you described so well, the enjoyment, thrill and challenge of racing has very little to do with what type of shifter you have.

 

[mjbst111]

You're god damn right I do. I don't downshift all the time because it makes me "hard-core", I do it because it's fun!! Whenever I come to a stop, I always downshift until 2nd (like if I'm in 4th, I'll go 4-3, 3-2) and then I clutch in and brake at around 1,200rpm in 2nd or something like that. Sometimes I downshift into 1st if the situation is proper for it. Stop signs, traffic lights, some asshole who just cut me off, whatever. Downshifting is very enjoyable for me when slowing down or to achieve faster acceleration, and it gives the car a really nice feel.

I really just have no idea if you are kidding or not so:

so your passenger's heads never move? That would show a perfect shift. Then of course you'd also have your perfect double clutch. There is no way to tell if you are performing a 'perfect' double-clutch unless you did not have any syncros the grind would tell you, therefore you must be joking, making my post a ridiculous responce.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I'll just assume you are kidding around.

 

[selavia]

what does it mean to have a perfect double clutch?

please edu-ma-cate me.

 

[MrElussive]

I really just have no idea if you are kidding or not so:

so your passenger's heads never move? That would show a perfect shift. Then of course you'd also have your perfect double clutch. There is no way to tell if you are performing a 'perfect' double-clutch unless you did not have any syncros the grind would tell you, therefore you must be joking, making my post a ridiculous responce.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. I'll just assume you are kidding around.

No, I was completely serious except when I started with "You're god damn right I do." I didn't say that my shifts were perfect, but I do downshift all the time and I never double clutch. With new cars, double clutching is a thing of the past, except for the 2-1 shift. When I downshift, I always rev-match (the fun of downshifting) but there are a lot of people who don't (they just downshfit and slowly let the clutch out) and this doesn't cause any wear on the clutch, either. As for the synchros, downshifting without double clutching doesn't do shit to them. If it's bad for the car then the car sort of "locks" you out of that gate...like if I was going 20mph in 2nd and I wanted to downshift into 1st, I just wouldn't be able to do it, you just can't push hard enough to get the gear into the gate really (I mean you can, but it takes a ridiculous amount of force and it's painfully obvious that this is not good for the synchros, hehe).
As for the "perfect upshifts", if you checkout one of my previous posts where I talk about the CDV (Clutch Diverter Valve, standard on all new cars with manual trannies), it is actually impossible to do a "perfect upshift" because no matter how fast or slow you push the clutch pedal in, the clutch is physically disengaged at only speed, performed by yours truly (the CDV). And who said your passengers moving back and forth determines the perfection of your upshift? I talked to my father about this, who is an old-school manual driver, and he basically summed it up saying "that's just how manual is". Especially with these new close-ratio manuals, I've got 280hp powering my first gear that ends at a mere 35mph....way too much compression for a PERECTLY smooth 1-2 upshift, but the rest of my shifts are quite smooth. Keep in mind that NOWHERE did I state that I am PERFECT, or that I am even any form of a kickass manual driver or anything like that. That is my entire argument about SMG....the computer is perfect and people are not.
I don't downshift thinking I'm putting wear on my clutch, and I don't downshift to conserve my brakes. I do it because it's fun and I don't give a shit about the wear-and-tear I may be causing (mainly because I am not causing any). As for my brakes, I don't really care to conserve them either. The downshifting does conserve them a WHOLE lot which is good for two reasons but I'm not really thinking about them when I use my brakes: every time I brake, the brake dust is aboslutely insane, and when my pads wear down, my rotors wear down with them and I am looking at a pricey brake job. Oh well, the braking power and the fun of downshifting is worth every penny. When I am driving, I am not thinking about the economics of my car...I am just chilling and enjoying myself.

 

[Chesty Bonds]

I double clutch and heel-toe as much as possible in my baby. No particular reason for it in the city but it does save brakes. And it is FUN.

mjbst: you can tell if you've done the perfect downshift in your car (even with synchros) when there is absolutely no resistance to the gearlever whatsoever and the clutch feeds in nice and smooth. I don't know about you but i can feel everything that's going on in the gearbox when I drive...

 

[BMWdude]

OMG you guys are impossible, get whatever you like and be happy. For me, I would get different cars, one of each different trannys, so that I can choose one depending on my mood [driving2] I was recently a passenger in a TDI Passat with stick shift, and let me tell you, when there are red lights all the way, the first 2 gears start to get on your nerves. I don't know if it was just the driver but I got my fare share of back stretching constantly bobbing back and forth I happend to have a head ache that day and would have much prefered to be in a smooth auto car. Other days... stick shift all the way! Like I said, depends on my mood.

 

[BMWdude]

Oh, to answer the original question of this thread " Do you think manual transmissions will ever become obsolete?"

YES, they most certainly will, just like the four tires will become obsolete once the flying cars are perfected (the good thing is not in our lifetime)

 

[MrElussive]

Hehe, why do people think we wanna kill each other? We're just having a discussion here...if you don't like it, don't post !!

I know what you mean though, BMWdude. Just this evening I went into NYC to pick something up and I took the ML500, and the automatic made the city driving easy as pie. I know that when I take my G35C into the city, all the shifting and clutch work can get annoying because it's not like I can even go fast or anything.

 

[Default]

Jesus I don't get on for two days and look at what I've missed, now I have to go back and read everything. As for whoever made the comment about DSG lagging on downshifts, having slower downshifts is much more favorable than having slow upshifts, downshifts don't necessarily have to be that immediate.